Teasing apart the Shaws

Ann Shaw marries Nathaniel Gee in 1791 at Chesterfield. He is 23. A few months earlier, banns appear at Sheffield for an “Ann Shay" to Gee: surely the same couple. Ann dies in childbirth and is buried at Holmesfield — which is not, notably, a Gee stronghold*. That detail refuses to sit quietly. Ann's life is so brief, I think she's under 20, but this blog attempts to work around her missing baptism to build her tree.

Ann's only child born 1792 in Chesterfield, marries in 1807 at Rotherham (at 15), settles that year in Eyam, and produces a dozen children. Among them is Millicent (baptised 1826) my forebear. So the line runs Chesterfield → Rotherham → Eyam. Perhaps Holmesfield could be irrelevant?

Ann’s parents are unknown yet one couple persistently calls for attention:

William Shaw of Dore (part of Sheffield), marries 1772 at Dronfield to Millicent Marsden of Holmesfield. They are buried at Holmesfield two years apart in the 1810s: William’s residence is given as “Eam” (Eyam) while Millicent’s intriguingly as Chesterfield. I like them very much.

Marsden repeating?

Nathaniel Gee meanwhile has married again. His second wife is Millicent Damm also known as Amelia who dies in 1832 aged '56', which my maths tells me is 1776 though her baptism is January 1778... at Holmesfield. Incidentally if we accept the baptism she is only 16 on marriage. But more is ahead:

Milly’s mother now the mist has gone, is surely Ann Marsden who married 1768 also at Dronfield, to Thomas Damm. Ann leaves a will in 1810, residing rather wonderfully at grim-sounding Unthank in 'the Lordship of Holmesfield and Parish of Dronfield'. She gives a gratifying roll-call of children, among them Ann Elliott, Alice Thompson and Millicent (Gee), several of whose baptisms confirm the father was Thomas.

Five years ago I was convinced these baptisms pointed to the wrong Ann (Bourne), widow of Stephen Damm. Now I see they point exactly where I'd hoped all along - to Ann (Marsden).

This all leads to the delicious possibility that Nathaniel Gee’s first wife Ann Shaw, was first cousin to second wife Milly Damm — their mothers being Marsden women, anchored to Holmesfield. If Ann Shaw’s mother was a Marsden, and Milly’s mother certainly was, then Nathaniel really did marry into the same family twice.

There is more.

Protecting the first Millicent

When William Shaw (victualler at Eyam) dies perhaps without sons in 1815, his estate bondsmen are William Elliott and Benjamin Thompson both of Brampton Moor and environs. They were the husbands of Ann Marsden's daughters Ann and Alice. It looks suspiciously like nephews by marriage are ensuring the widow Millicent (Marsden) Shaw’s interests. They were near neighbours. They were family. Perhaps they were conveniently placed advocates, stepping in to safeguard Millicent's interests.

It fits rather well, doesn't it. The Shaws' surviving granddaughter (?) at Eyam did have a husband then 44 who could easily have 'helped himself' to these interests, but would have blanched at crossing the iron moulders Elliott and Thompson, who were doubtless younger, fitter, and better-connected.

Tangles

We jettison the 'sundial story'. I can no longer believe the Eyam sundial stonemason of the 1780s — William Shaw or Shore — is the same man. It is hard to work out when Eyam first makes its appearance.

There are, as ever, complications. A Millicent Marsden baptised 1756 at Hope, Derbyshire (brother James 1752, who in turn has a daughter Millicent at Eyam) tempts me briefly. But Hope is out of orbit; Holmesfield is the gravitational pull. I suspect coincidence. I am scrubbing out early Eyam area references.

Then there is Sarah Hague, first wife of Ann Shaw’s likely grandson-in-law, the chap at Eyam. Her mother, Millicent Dalton of Totley, marries in 1775 at Dronfield - Dronfield again? The registers charmingly record hamlets but frequently neglect wives’ names — a peculiar problem. Untangling Millicent Dalton’s place in the web may be a step too far for present sanity. Though - footnote - this Millicent's marriage had first been forbidden by the bride's father!

Kowtowing to the Ellises? 

But Robert Ellis Marsden (1767–1844), baptised at Holmesfield (father John) does names a daughter Millicent. This I think could fit. Robert makes the odd move to farm at Teversal, Mansfield with a John and a William drifting around the same area. I reckon he is the namesake for Robert Ellis junior (d. 1737), a wealthy landowner at Dronfield. Were the Marsdens looking to curry favour with the Ellises or was there a genuine connection? Ellis had property at St Ives in Cambridgeshire of all places. Whilst I cannot knit him into the Marsdens he does linger as a future puzzle.

Were they Sisters? 

So the central question persists: were Ann Marsden (c.1746?) and Millicent Marsden (c.1756?) sisters, perhaps daughters of a John Marsden? Millicent Shaw is buried in 1817 aged 61, which would make her born c.1756 — young for a 1772 marriage given no special note in the registers but I could be swayed about that. I remain uneasy about the Hope baptism despite it being the 'right' year of 1755/6 when every other life event circles Holmesfield.

The most promising route to firm resolution may be mitochondrial DNA. Ann Marsden’s female line should in theory carry the same mtDNA as Millicent Marsden if they were sisters. Millicent's daughter (?) Ann Shaw has abundant female-line descendants. Second wife Millicent Damm's line has proved elusive. Eagle-eyed readers may spot that we have already tried this tactic once before for another (wrong!) Ann Shaw.

Recent exploration shows that Ann Marsden's female lines are frustratingly thin on living representatives despite prolific daughters and granddaughters. The Elliotts alone had about 10 female line granddaughters but all lines appear to have failed. But Martha Damm[s] (1782), Maria Damm[s] (1792), Ann Sykes (1800), Ann Gee (1795) — remain of interest to our enquiries. And we may one day know more. Perhaps one of them is the mother of Henry Damms Lindley (1829) who I have not teased out.

So the pattern, because it deserves repeating is:

• Holmesfield
• Marsdens
• Millicents
• Eyam and Chesterfield
• ... and Nathaniel Gee marrying two women who seemingly had a good deal in common:

(1) Ann Shaw c. 1774, grandmother of my Millicent (1826), and perhaps daughter of another Millicent (Marsden)

(2) Millicent 'Amelia' Damm c. 1778, step-grandmother of my Millicent (1826), and surely this part is certain, niece of Millicent (Marsden) Shaw

The Upshot Is:

I should think the chance of the second wife being called the family name of Millicent**, happening to have an aunt named (Millicent) Shaw from Holmesfield, who resided in Eyam/Chesterfield, when the first wife was definitely a Shaw from Holmesfield whose daughter resided in Eyam/Chesterfield... just cannot be chance. This seems a good approach with which to argue the case.

What next?

(1) The next sensible move is to mine Ann Damm’s 1810 will some more, to look again at Robert Ellis's family, and to pursue the faint mtDNA trail through the remaining female lines.

(2) I have stood in Holmesfield churchyard already in a February of yore. I don't think standing there again is going to help - despite this suggestion from AI - which was otherwise very helpful in helping me speak plainly about this complex befuddling web.

----------------- 

* Nathaniel's daughter Ann (1796) was baptised at Holmesfield, but with his second wife being from there (and allegedly barely 18) it was natural for the first child to be born in the bride's home parish. Incidentally his father also married a woman that was 16 (in 1767) so Nathaniel marrying an 18 year old followed by a 16 year old is odd if not reprehensible in our eyes but see here for background.

** Millicent (1826) could have been named after her mother's stepmother Millicent Damm or her mother's likely grandmother Millicent Marsden - so the mother's stepmother being called Millicent is perhaps not evidence by itself. But seriously, how many Millicents do you know personally?

Suffolk and Leicestershire

My least well known corner of my family I suppose are Henry Smith born 1827 and his sisters. He was from a large family of ten or so and I know nothing of how they were raised. Except that he is catapulted into our family when Miss Mary Flowers, 32 and in trouble, makes the brave decision to marry him on paupers' favourite, Christmas Day, 1850. Three children are quickly rushed out: 1851, 1852, 1853 and Mary is not in the workhouse but still in her uncle's favour at the place he has by right of his wife, Mulbarton Hall. Until the larded owners make their way back from empire construction in India that is. 

Mary vanishes in 1869 into death and we must kiss Mulbarton Hall goodbye never to be seen again.

Now we have leisure 200 years later to look at Henry's sisters. I cannot care about all of them but two stand out from the motley crew: Sarah 1815 and Harriet 1831.

Sarah edged past the precipice of being an unwed mother and at nearly thirty in Lakenham secured her groom Ephraim Goodrum or "good 'un" I should think himself knowing all about being born out of wedlock. They settle as blacksmith and wife at St Margaret Ilketshall and looked after Henry on his becoming a widower. 

Harriet produced the very loyal W. R. Bowgen, obliterated by death but a nexus point around whom these folks collected. They must surely have nearly 300 descendants between them by now. 

And for me the locations are rather wonderful not to mention the romantic inlets of the Waveney and the stories we can hopefully weave. 

Harriet had only two other children, Richard (!!!?) who is extraordinary married three times left six thousand pounds businessmen and three of his children left their spouses another became Mrs Austen (yes that family). And Sophia who died at 26 in Toronto: her family today reside in Lincoln which I knew but also Wigston Leicester and Melton Mowbray which was a real surprise just lately. 

Sarah had a tiny family of four but they solidly took on the north Suffolk area, running large families, smithys and a post office public house or two. A few have DNA tested and match myself. This week we learnt the blacksmith had an extra child in World War Two. So one of Sarah's great grandchildren has actually DNA tested despite as I say this being 200 years ago really. 

Letters exchanged in the 1990s are still on file and every so often a name known from that time appears as genetic match how lovely. Though it hasn't always been easy in the intervening years. A great niece raised in poverty or adopted out, the original contact would never have known.

It's hard to know what personally I've inherited from Henry Smith: hopefully not too much going on his character and some questionable unions in the vicinity. It's a treat having Sarah, Harriet and the strong ties to Halesworth, Beccles, M. Mowbray and all showing you can't change the canvas but you can for sure choose how you look at it.

Newly available Worcestershire record from 1715 helps 8-great-grandpa mystery

Early November 1715 was not a great time to be getting married. The Jacobite army was in full swing in northern England and that might explain why the marriage record is missing. The parish registers for Chaddesley Corbett seem to be missing from August 1715 up until 1717.

Thomas Kidson's wife Sarah had been buried in April, having borne him several children. His next child would be Hannah Kidson baptised 1718, but there would be unique circumstances surrounding her birth. It was not simple. The picture is murky.

Thomas Kidson became a churchwarden in his home of Kinver, Staffordshire. The population may have been just a few hundred as it went from 1500 to 2000 over the nineteenth centuries. He has several hundred yards of pinfolding (nail making). Thomas's will shows some sense of importance wishing to be interred 'in a decent manner as becomes a person of my degree'. He leaves his property to the sole management of his friend John Hodges. To Mary the mother of Hannah, Richard and James Kidson 'the two beds and beding and four pair of sheets which are in the chamber I now lye', plus more including interest of money that is in Mr Fullilove's hands. Mary is also to receive the tubs and furnace belonging to his brewing business, plus pots kettles saucepans and trenchers. This suggests she ran a public house with him. I think his will was made in contemplation of death. It being July 1740 he'd be 55. There is a nice turn of phrase 'I leave to the discretion of my family now at home all the rest of my effects to be disposed of by my executor'. It starts well, but the sentence was presumably dictated by the said executor, who clearly wanted a free reign and was somewhat trusted by those present.

Thomas had older children Mary, Thomas, John Kidson and Sarah Johnson by his first marriage as a teenager to Sarah Davies.

But in November 1715, a marriage licence appears for 'Thomas Kitson widower age 30 of Kinfare Staffordshire to Jane Barford age 25 spinster of Chaddesley Corbett'. This is another rushed marriage, and it must have ended in tears as Thomas is having my ancestor Hannah barely three years later with a new partner Mary, with whom he lived but to whom he was never legally married.

So at last we have something of an explanation, that Thomas was legally married to someone else, namely Jane.

This record https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/63053/records/97528 
is found in the Worcestershire, England, Marriage Licenses, 1661-1949. 

All change at the Tavern: re-assessing tree leads to changes

For years I've wondered if you really belonged, Harriet Jones, wife of whip-thong maker Thomas Jones of Deritend, Birmingham. Your grandkids made it into my book (page 207 in fact). And your daughter Harriet Jones Hawkins was the first woman to say NO to plural marriage in a law court in the state of Utah, in 1891. She sounded like she ought to belong.

I have several DNA matches to Harriet's husband, Thomas Sunderland Hawkins, but let's remember he was the plural marrying one, so it's perhaps not surprising that half of Utah claim him as their dad. 

The problem started with Thomas Brasier baptised 1742, a customs and excise man. His entry in the IR27 death duty indexes as 'Branscer' names his wife Elizabeth and Elizabeth's own IR27 entry (1852) (turns out to be their daughter), names Joseph Newey as executor. Dr Taylor kindly sent me a copy of Elizabeth's will dated 1828, and listing five nieces, granddaughter of Thomas: Elizabeth Aston, Hannah Wood, Fanny Flavel, Harriet Newton and Eliza Newton.

These events were in and around Dudley, also Cradley Heath, Stourbridge (Old Swinford), Clent and Sedgley. It took a trip to The Hive Worcester to find Eliza's baptism in the right year as Norton, while Fanny is 1851 is recorded as Flavle and indexed as Flook. But it was Harriet that caused the pain.

For some reason I don't appear to have been very logical about my research, waiting until Nancy Brasier (another unmarried family member)'s will (1863) popped through in September 2018 before getting going in earnest. Nancy had the Druid Tavern in the town.

Also, I quickly decided Harriet Newton was born 1803 in Cradley and had married Thomas whipthong Jones in 1826. At the time I didn't have Harriet's baptism, but it did clash with aunt Elizabeth's will (1828) which declared her unmarried.

It wasn't until 2022 that Worcestershire's brilliant parish registers were uploaded to Ancestry. So today I see that Harriet was actually baptised 1809 in Oldswinford and was thus hardly likely to marry in 1826. Further that others are right that the whipthong maker's wife Harriet 'born 1803 Cradley' was baptised 1803 Deritend the son of a couple from Cradley and environs. 

And further that the marriage of Harriet (as 'Darton') in 1835 Edgbaston to Mr Ward, a japanner in the jewellery quarter looks spot on. With her first children named after sister Hannah and her husband Frederic. There is just the small issue of Harriet Newton baptised 1807 Old Swinford (daughter of Samuel) to eliminate.

I had hoped that the Estate Duty Registers for 1863 would confirm Harriet's last name: but as she got less than £20 from her aunt Nancy's estate the clerks weren't fussed about her last name and it's shown as 'Newton'.

This all absolutely explains why there were never any DNA matches from the whipthong maker's daughter in Utah. It has taken far too long to spot this and indeed to type this up, so I'll press send, and consider any points of clarification or useful images, later.

Also:

Henry Newton baptised 1800 turned out to be the grandfather of Thomas Davies (1861) born to an unmarried couple who himself turned out to be the mysterious 'wire drawer' named on the World War One marriage certificate of a son in Leeds.... whose grandson I had found an identified as 'J.D.' on GEDmatch on I think chromosome 6. It was all very labyrinthine.

William and Hannah Newton turned out to be born 'mother Susanna'. More to follow... 

 

Move over Somerset: Staffordshire is the new kid in town (pt 1)

In my youth it was easier finding out what was happening in horse-drawn Somerset than it was finding out what was happening on ITV. And the former was far more wholesome. I had only to hop up a few stairs above 'Next' and the faded leather-bound volumes in the disused probate registry opened so very easily. No remote control needed.

A gain 'here' equalled a piece of information 'there' as all the families east of the Mendips were connected somehow. You just had to find the right button. At 17 one slightly snowy December, I hopped in my elderly Fiesta and took those ancient addresses and went to visit them. Cousins were still there. Ralph Bush (born 6 November 1900), dairy farmer was still alive, nearly doing the tonne. Extraordinary to think that even the car I was driving has lately turned 50 - on some scrapheap somewhere.

But it all had to end. Reunions and memories and beautiful big trees and photographs, gravestones and stories....

Once the Haine Reunion 2005 had happened in Ohio, it was our swan song. The county had no more left to give. Just roads and endless car-ry traffic-fumed angry London visiting road filled roads. Once-pleasant cottages hard juxta'd onto the endlessly rolling tarmac, sucking in more unhappy Londoners bemoaning the stagnant lonely air. Old family strongholds selling up, and nowhere for anyone to live.

What a relief to escape. I was a genealogical nomad for a while, enjoying the links to Wales, to the Peak District, the Lake District fringes and for a while to Colombia. The joy of studying old maps proving far more reliable than smoky old lorry-belching Somerset. Goodbye old friend!

But then one day, a new county raised its head, and things would never be the same again. 

Wrong trees: what to do

There should be a question mark at the end of the title. This is a problem from a few years ago. It felt remarkably personal when there were enquiries about family history through to email, post or even Ancestry message.

There were only four areas of confusion that I can think of right now:

• Hannah 'Robinson' the wife of William Bagshaw of Eyam - born 1792 Chesterfield. There was no baptism that fitted. Thanks to a timely message from Barrie Robinson in 2014 which showed that the William Bagshaw who married Hannah Robinson was alive and well in Sheffield in 1841. And that left the door open to exploring other options. Ultimately Hannah turned out to be Hannah Gee, with baptism, family background and DNA all happily confirming this, and most online trees now do reflect that.
   
• Elizabeth Marshall wife of William Hugo. Ancestry trees are torn on this one. Most have her as born about 1781 in Egloshayle the daughter of John Marshall and Ann Guard. She is actually (as many trees show) born about 1775 in Bodmin the daughter of John Marshall and Jane Stephens. The key piece of evidence for this is the will of John Marshall of Bodmin.
  
  
• William and Jane Hambly of Redruth, Cornwall. The prevailing mood in the 1990s was that this couple had married in 1753 in Duloe, Cornwall rather than in 1757 in Redruth. Furthermore, nobody had clocked that she was a widow nee Jane Bohemia. Most trees do now recognise this and there is proof in that William jr's will names his half-sister's daughter as a niece.
  
  
• Ruth and Rachel Grist of Hemington, Somerset married George Crees a gardener in Bath in the period around 1820. For a while there was doubt that these two were sisters. This seems to have been resolved. I am sure Crees would have been around at an interesting time in Bath's history.
   
• Thomas Haine born 1822 in West Pennard. Because his first marriage took place in Batcombe, Somerset, archive staff suggested that Thomas might have been born as Thomas Haimes (or similar) in the parish, and until the 1881 census was released showing the correct birthplace, the Batcombe Thomas was thought to be everyone's forebear. In addition the family had wrongly suggested Thomas had a middle name of Talbot, which due to careful tree pruning by the family, has been close to eradicated: although see the next point.
  
  
• Ancestry.com has a weakness for made-up middle names for our forebears. It will unfortunately not challenge these and even encourage their proliferation. It might be possible to challenge this by inserting 'NoMiddle' as the middle name.

It is a relief to know that these are now mostly resolved. Possibly human nature and the Ancestry algorithm eventually favour the correct information: but that is by no means certain.

Counties of interest: where my ancestors were

This quick post shows the counties my ancestors occupied.

Somerset, Cornwall, Glamorganshire, Lancashire, Norfolk, Derbyshire, and Westmorland are the main counties from the last 150 years. Going back to 3xgreat-grandparents, we need to include Kent (birthplace of Maria and the place where her parents later lived), Pembrokeshire and Monmouthshire (birthplaces of my Welsh forebear's parents), Northumberland (birthplace of John), County Durham (home of John and Jane).

Going further back we find Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Cheshire (haunts of my 5xgreat-grandfather Nathaniel), Cumberland (4xgreat-grandmother Jane and husband), Wiltshire (ancestor born there 1660s).

And then there are ancilliary counties of Nottinghamshire (home of James Fox of Gotham widower of Esther), London (where two grandparents are born), (South) Yorkshire, Devon and Suffolk (where ancestral couples marry), Wigtownshire and Kirkcudbrightshire (seemingly where two ancestors originate), Carmarthenshire (home of my Mortons), and arguably Breconshire (where another ancestral couple marries) - but that is now part of Powys which I would be uncomfortable shading in given that we're talking just across the border from Glamorgan.

If we take out County Durham, Suffolk, London and Kent (all somewhat questionable as long-term places of origin), it's been pointed out that I'm remarkably "western half of the UK", with Norfolk very much the outlier.

Nottinghamshire was a capricious inclusion: not only did Esther Fox never live here (she also never lived at Bollington near Macclesfield), but a distant uncle John Barton (1770) was publican at the Warren Arms, Stapleford in the county and succeeded there by his son. I don't have much about Esther-not-in-Notts: she has been well blogged but mostly concerning her time not-in-Cheshire here, here and here.

If I was allowed unlimited collateral connections, then Dorset would feature (uncles William Porch Creed married here in 1828 at Melcombe Regis Weymouth and William Speed the same in 1758 at Dorchester).  

Coming from the other direction, the Huttons and the Dibben sisters take care of many/most English counties, while Isabella Kroll's unexpected marriage in Keswick in 1907 knocks out 13 countries in Europe and beyond with surprisingly little effort.

A good place to end this blog post.

 

Connecting in South Wales

My Hunters and Harrises were from Cornwall.

The Ponsfords and Hanneys were from Somerset.

The Cadogans and Francises were from West Wales.

They all connected in the tinplate works and associated industries around the north of Swansea in the mid-1800s.

My grandfather being from Morriston, Swansea, I knew about many of the family connections. But it is only a bit more recently - thanks to some puzzling DNA matches, and dare-I-say to online trees, that the full picture is emerging. Well some more of it at least.

We knew that the Hanney Silver Band popped up twice - once as my grandpa's maternal half-uncles and secondly as marrying his father's cousin Mary Ann Harris.

I was pretty sure that the Cadogans appeared two times, or three depending how you count, as my grandpa's uncle Tom married a Cadogan and then Tom's cousin Francis married Jessie Ponsford Cadogan as his first wife. The two Cadogans being cousins.

I hadn't appreciated that Francis's nephew David, who married a daughter of Sid Turner, had also married into the Ponsfords. As Sid was a maternal cousin of Jessie and her sister Annie. This helped explain why Sid's daughter was able to put me in touch with Jessie and Annie's grandson back in 1993.

Then we come to the DNA. Why on earth were my Hanney half-blood relatives showing up as DNA matches to the descendants of Elizabeth Rodda Harris, who married in 1869 to Samuel Hynam? It turned out that Samuel's aunt Hannah had married in Marksbury to James Hanney senior, progenitor of the clan in Swansea. (It further emerged that one of the couple's grandsons had married Annie Ponsford Cadogan.)

It emerges that the Hanney cousin was connected to Samuel Hynam possibly up to five separate ways.

Examining the wider Hynam tree just now, I discovered two things:

1) that when I rang Miss Hynam in the Swansea phone book in 1992 I had very good odds of reaching the right branch of the family, as the family though large had sons who mostly left the family area

2) that there are some good candidates including a Lily Hynam living in Coventry who might have invited my mother for an ill-fated visit in the late 1950s

I am almost certain that there most be other hidden connections. I remembered almost having to apologise to folk in Swansea for being connected to the Hanneys twice in such a muddling way, but now I see it is par for the course...